Curse

Captain Arne Is PRO · Nov 14, 2007, 09:38 PM // 21:38

you're still ugly, yanman, but i agree

ensoriki · Nov 14, 2007, 09:42 PM // 21:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spike

Its a shame that pvpers don't understand anything thats not about them. IE pretty much everything.

Nerfs are BAD. Espicaly nerfs done for no obvious reason other then because of a VERY small vocal minority seems to think its would be a good idea. If you need an example of how bad nerfs can be. See what happend to Star Wars galaxies. They turned it from the best MMO ever in to a laughing stock. The same is slowly happening to this game too.

Nerfs are bad depending on where the skills position is.

Nerfs are good depending on where the skills position is.

A balanced skill should not be nerfed, unless the game is currently balanced in such a way that doing so refreshes the game.

A bad imbalanced skill should be nerfed so that it refreshes the game.

Yan >.> .....
hee hee
*equips flame shield*
IM A BETTER SIN BUILDER THAN YOU =P
....guys don't ruin my fun.

Traveller · Nov 14, 2007, 09:44 PM // 21:44

I usually understand the nerfs and can adapt my playing + find new builds. My only gripe is that there are a shitload of unused, mediocre skills that could use a buff, be it in PvP or PvE environment. Usually when they buff along with nerfs, they don't buff enough or they overbuff - and have to nerf later.

Skillbars are so compressed with 8 skills already that players don't usually want mediocre skills, so buff more of these unused skills and do it properly, so that we might think "Hey, that could be an alternative on my bar" instead of "Hey, looks like they buffed Ebon Hawk... well, it's still crap".

Grammar · Nov 14, 2007, 09:50 PM // 21:50

I've been fine with every nerf in the history of this game (been playing since the beginning), with only one exception: the LoD nerf last week.
That nerf was entirely unique and different than any other nerf before it due to the complete lack of even remotely viable substitutes (functionally speaking).
Save for that one exception, I agree with the OP.

**cosyfiep** · Nov 14, 2007, 09:56 PM // 21:56

I dont mind the skill balances -----its when they do stupid things that annoys me. (I wont give examples, but I am sure there are some

).

Most of the skills that get 'balanced' I rarely use anyways....I have never been one to even use a cookie cuter build (if I even ever looked to find out whats on those ---).....so its not a real biggie to me.

Things change, sometimes for the good, sometimes for the bad.....being able to deal with the changes is what life is all about.....now I must go and put the snow tires on my car.

Taki · Nov 14, 2007, 10:03 PM // 22:03

I prefer balance over nerfs tbh. Some things need to be toned down but many nerfs go over the top, completely removing skills from viable play. That makes the game boring and frustrating, especially to casual players who are oblivious to why their favorite skills/build/profession fall victim, constantly.

Zeek Aran · Nov 14, 2007, 10:03 PM // 22:03

I think you would have been better off not copying every other sin's build out there, and could completely avoid the nerf in that way.

Yanman.be · Nov 14, 2007, 10:09 PM // 22:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeek Aran

I think you would have been better off not copying every other sin's build out there, and could completely avoid the nerf in that way.

You talkin' to me? Yes, you! You talkin' to me buddy? I was sure you were talking to me....what are you trying to say?

AnnaCloud9 · Nov 14, 2007, 10:10 PM // 22:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

I don't mind nerf IF we are given a good alternative.

BUT IF the only skills that made it possible to play a CERTAIN way (like non-damage shutdown in PvE) are nerfed and as a replacement we are offered skilles that are completely contrary to my desired playing style (eg. massive DAMAGE (PvE-only) skills) - well then, I am not a very happy camper.
That's my only problem - being forced to play a specific way IF I want to be effective.

Why does ANet have to give you an alternative? Is it so bad that you can't come up with a single other build to 'compensate' you for 'your' playstyle? You're not being forced to play in any kind of way. Your choices are: adjust to the change to the one build you so vehemently defend as the answer to your Guild Wars life...or go through the hundreds of other skills to build a different (and probably better) build. I fail to see how this is a forced mechanic. Now if they changed the skill, and told you you may never remove it from your bar...I might have some sympathy for you.

And by the way, I fully support yanman's courage to start a positive topic about the recent changes, as I've always, since April 2005, adapted and adjusted to every skill change ever thrown at me. And the darn game is still fun!

Zeek Aran · Nov 14, 2007, 10:15 PM // 22:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yanman.be

You talkin' to me? Yes, you! You talkin' to me buddy? I was sure you were talking to me....what are you trying to say?

There's plenty of skills you can use that every other person isn't using. In this way, your bar will be unexpected and not as easily countered, and you will also avoid your build being nerfed. Whether YOU specifically were the average Shadow Prison nublet or not, it can be directed at the community who PvPs with all the flavor of the month builds. Stop using the build everyone else is using and you will do better, assuming you can make a competent build.

EDIT: Ugh, what she said. *points up*

Aera Lure · Nov 14, 2007, 10:21 PM // 22:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by AnnaCloud9

And by the way, I fully support yanman's courage to start a positive topic about the recent changes, as I've always, since April 2005, adapted and adjusted to every skill change ever thrown at me. And the darn game is still fun!

Qualitatively saying nerfs are good is like saying glass is half empty. You're basically saying its fine because there is still water left and you wont go thirsty. The thing is, nerfs are really only good in the context of larger skill balancing, wherein we might actually see more skill and build variation. Anet's approach to identify a given meta and nerf it is the least desirable option and it should not be supported, as it only encourages the rise of another meta and another round of nerfs, continuing a downward spiral, limiting variety.

Now I'm not saying its not good to be able to adapt. Of course it is. I am simply lamenting what I see as a pretty poor way of trying to balance the game - looking every month or two to find the dominating meta and beating it down.

moriz · Nov 14, 2007, 10:24 PM // 22:24

there are some skills that can only exist in two forms: marginally good, in which case nobody will use them. or, extremely good, in which case it's broken and everyone's forced to run it to stay competitive.

with those skills, the only balancing that can be done is to nerf them. unfortunately, many of those skills happen to be assassin skills. the class itself is bad from the beginning. an entire profession, based on blowing people up in seconds, with the ability to completely ignore fundamental game mechanics (positioning, movement control, etc)? sounds pretty bad to me.

like bad skills, the assassin can also only exist in two forms: marginally effective, in which case nobody will use them. or extremely powerful, in which case everyone will either have to play them or bring specific counters to contain them. personally, i prefer the former option.

arcanemacabre · Nov 14, 2007, 10:28 PM // 22:28

I disagree with the OP for one reason:

Skill Balances are good, nerfs and buffs alike. If it were only nerfs, we'd be left with week-long PvP matches and year-long PvE missions as no one would be doing any damage or healing. So... yeah.

Lady Lozza · Nov 14, 2007, 10:52 PM // 22:52

Meh, I don't really care that much about nerfs/buffs, I whinge a little about it and then I get on with playing the game - adjust as I go.

Mind you the pet-corpse thing today is just plain odd...

But I'm sure I'll get used to it in time.

Yanman.be · Nov 14, 2007, 11:25 PM // 23:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcanemacabre

I disagree with the OP for one reason:

Skill Balances are good, nerfs and buffs alike. If it were only nerfs, we'd be left with week-long PvP matches and year-long PvE missions as no one would be doing any damage or healing. So... yeah.

If they nerf healing, how is stuff going to stay alive?

arcanemacabre · Nov 14, 2007, 11:26 PM // 23:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yanman.be

If they nerf healing, how is stuff going to stay alive?

If they nerf damage-dealing, too, how are things going to die? Do you see where I'm going with this?

ensoriki · Nov 14, 2007, 11:29 PM // 23:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yanman.be

If they nerf healing, how is stuff going to stay alive?

The magic of HAX.

Shadowfox1125 · Nov 14, 2007, 11:29 PM // 23:29

I'm guessing because GW has become a single player COORPG/MMORPG, people have started to relate GW to RPGs, in which every part of the game is static and nothing changes.

Yanman.be · Nov 14, 2007, 11:38 PM // 23:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcanemacabre

If they nerf damage-dealing, too, how are things going to die? Do you see where I'm going with this?

Let's say there are 4 attribute lines:

Healing A = 10
Healing B = 10
Damage X =10
Damage Z =11

Z does more damage, so they nerf it: Z=10.
Does it matter now if A B X Z are nerfed to 9? or 4?

You could also go A=20 B=10 X=20 Z=10. Perfectly balanced, but everyone will be using A and X. In order to get more variety, they'll put everything on 10, rather than 20. Lowering stats is better than raising it. Why? That's another story.

Hailey Anne · Nov 14, 2007, 11:42 PM // 23:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bankai

In that case, I'm not talking about you. I know there are also many people who DO understand reason, and that there are quite a lot intelligent PvErs. However, you'll have to agree with me, in general, PvErs don't adapt and whine about everything.

I would agree with this yes BUT, PvPers are just as bad if not worse.